Kathleen is the author of The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Sewn Product Manufacturing, the most highly rated book of any topic in the garment industry. Which begs the question: if consumers can’t agree on the measures that constitute a size 10 or 12, how can manufacturers be expected to size according to consumer expectations? kay, I maintain, no one can be a size 0 unless painfully anorexic. The majority is in dark green; significant measures (over 10%) are in light green: If majority rules, a size 10 has a 36″ bust, 28″ waist and a 40″ hip. There are two charts (women's and junior's) for women's dress sizes since United States use different numbering system (even vs odd) for each category. Kids & Baby size chart Exact sizes in this size chart are provided by eBay and may vary by brand. Hi. I’m not in the fashion industry, but I suspect each retail marketer will do anything to make their own product look better than the (virtually identical) one being sold down the street, including deflating tag sizes to fool the public. One we can’t size to them as readily because a huge percentage are fat and it is close to impossible to predict body shape with weight gain (another point I made in this entry). If you want to know which European pair of pants corresponds to the British pant size, you need to do the same as you did with an American pant, that is, add 10. Our height range has increased an inch but the median is the same height as the 10. Yes it makes like easy. We can wear the same t-shirts and casual shirts, and fit and flare dresses, and socks. Do not forget that as periods begin at an earlier and earlier age, so does breast development and, possibly, the maturity of their cloths. It’s clearly not only the manufacturer’s fault, but also marketing exploitation. This is how you measure to find the perfect fitting pants. Namely that measurements are all over the map. I want to know that a size 10 shirt is based on a bust measurement of ___ and a size 10 pant is based on a hip measurement of ___. My rib cage is tiny and hers is not, and her hips are super narrow and mine are not. Yes, it makes the shopper work harder. For some reason, my measurements are much larger than everybody’s size chart for size 10, but that’s the size I usually need. Starting in 1993, she began providing consulting and engineering services to manufacturers, small companies, and startups with an emphasis on developing owner-operator domestic cut-and-sew operations. I don’t change weight that drastically during any given month, series of months that one day I can wear one size and the next need 2 sizes bigger or stretchy leggings. Shirts and pants are best worn baggy. Currently Recognised Sizes. …. A dress size may be no different. is very telling. it has to be inexpensive … and it has to be NOW. heh. (34 DD bra)…I am also 53 yrs old, child-free. Also, I know that what I want is complicated by grading. Our expectations of a Size 10 are based on going out into the world and trying on clothes. Here you’ll find out what size you have, how to take your measurements properly, or how to convert to European shoe sizes. To find out your shoe size, follow the instructions below to measure your foot, and then use the charts above to find the appropriate size conversions. As I gain weight, I gain proportionately more on my hips. Before, people presumed they’d have to alter clothing they bought at the store. 4) I think a bunch of other questions tangled up in there. In my closet, sits brand *new* size 16 suit (Talbots), a size 14 suit (LOFT), a size 16-18 suit (JC PENNEY), and ZERO women’s dress shirts, because I can’t get a single one to “fit” either in length or my waist. Even when I was younger -a presumed golden age of well fitted apparel- we never had the expectation that something would fit us off the rack. There is no such thing as vanity sizing. But I’d really like to have a realiable base-line. Sizing in girls’ apparel is not an exact science. This is a big problem. (sweat, sweat). If they don’t want to make the effort they can always have things altered or custom-made. This is why as a teen and young child I learned to sew. A generation (or two) ago, more people knew how to sew and alter their own clothing, so they probably didn’t go to a tailor. Women’s shirt sizing by bust size? 3) Whether the meaning of a size range is that the median fits you at your ideal weight and the other sizes fit you as you gain or lose weight. Want one? It’s almost like you need more like mens, where you measure the chest and then fit the rest as a narrow, wide, etc. I’m not in the fashion industry, but I suspect each retail marketer will do anything to make their own product look better than the (virtually identical) one being sold down the street, including deflating tag sizes to fool the public… No doubt some RTW consumers buy into the vanity sizing silliness, but the majority these days are probably more concerned with the price tag than the size tag. I agree with your conclusions, and I actually think the current system works as well as anything could. I understand designers’ couture garments are cut for their wealthy customers and will have different sizing. Retailers could buy an awful lot of customer loyalty with a lower price tag, whereas inconsistent sizing buys nothing. Women's Clothing Size Women's clothing size conversion chart for dresses, suits, coats, shirt and jacket for US, UK, Europe, Australia and Japan. Only the smallest size fit right. And then there’s wedding gown sizing, which is a real shocker for many brides. That makes perfect sense. If your measurements fall between two sizes, we recommend to select the larger size (but you may try both sizes on if possible). they come up to or slightly above my waist.). That way, assuming a simple two-inch grade, if the standard says size 8 measurements should be 34-25-36 and size 10 should be 36-27-38, Company A might use 38-26-40 as its basis for size 10, and Company B might assign 34-27-37 to a 10, while at the same time Company C could manufacture a size 8 using 35-26-36. All I can say is that I’m smiling smugly to myself. [Answer is No, but has anyone explicitly suggested that?] This actually sounds about right, but a bit large. I like to know that I can buy a womens size L anywhere and have reasonable expectations that it would fit as well as any other size L. I don’t mind extending that theory either. given the industry’s penchant for trying to flatter their customers that they fit in a size smaller than they thought. Moreover, it is more expensive product lines that have smaller sizing, exactly the opposite of what people think. Many of them, occasionally even I, look at unrealistic measurements, and go, am I sure? sent three in, got 0 back that fit correctly because they fit it to what they thought it should have been.. the pins couldn’t have been right! It’s always irked me that guys can buy 16-33 shirts or 30-34 pants, and women have to play guessing games. All the “larger” sizes were too tight. One needs more material for size, not just waste. Granted the XY pair does not have as much genetic material as the XX gene but its not rocket science. KEP, With less people learning how to sew these days, not even knowing how to sew on a button(! Pants – waist, hip, inseam? Yes, it’s all about expectations, they’ve evolved from unreasonable to become out and out impossible. It truly helps me understand the sizing challenge that manufacturers face. (Ride, well they are heavy) I’ve read several of them already. I don’t want “standard sizes”, but I do want basic target measurements on the tags. Most women have a good idea what their measurements are, but rather than assume you know, get an accurate measurement. Being 10 or 15 pounds overweight, my bust and hips are equal now. The outliers (weight of 170 pounds!) One persons is starting her Haloween costume. Results of the survey (thank you!) I can fit into sizes 6-14, depending on the manufacturer (CK goes crazy on the vanity sizing)… nuts! Most of which don’t carry that “next size up” in store, and when they do, I end up making a choked back scream gurgling noise in the dressing room, because what I needed was an inch or two more just ended up being a 6 inch inclusion, or the exact needed measurement but now proportioned for the center front, (apple) and sits funnily and weirdly on my hips. Most UK dress sizing systems start at about a size 8 and can run to a size 32. Men size their clothes this way, why can’t women? How does one make “one size fits all” thing? Compare your bust, waist and hip measurements with our size guide to get the best fit at Missguided. Not all lasts and fit models are the same shape. In this way they could buy a big dress and then modify where one side of the zipper is so the dress conforms to their body shape. So measurements can make a difference even within the same size range. The survey was a great idea. Can one generate customer loyalty because they know this size 8 is their size 8? Simple inches or centimeter markings could certainly help! Kai, I think honestly the concept of sizes is out of touch with reality. [Answer is No, the size range fits smaller to larger women with the same body type. Wealthy people are thinner. I was trained to cut patterns 30 years ago to facilitate this. She’s five foot five or six inches tall and weighs 140 pounds. I tried on 4 different sizes by the same brand. The UK doesn’t have this problem, right? And when I sew my own clothes, I use a size 12 pattern! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_13402.) That is what is the outfit cut for. Cocktail dresses, my lady bits don’t need to be aired in public, thank-you very much! We assumed we’d have to alter it. I have no issues with a Medium being the median for the target market. It would be impossible to calculate changing figure proportions of consumers singly. I am constantly telling people to ignore the ease at the waist and determine their personal preferences instead, a difficult concept for the beginner who wants/needs a simple formula to understand. As soon as you all can come to agreement on measurements is when we’ll start sizing to meet your expectations. Yes, it would be nice if the window were a little tighter, but it’s really not that big of a deal to grab 2 sizes the first time I try on a new brand. I think the size variance is industry-driven, not customer-driven. Waist: circumference around your natural waistline. You have a good idea – apples, pears, strawberries and bananas. Even my dad can mend his own clothing and hems his own jeans. Sizing evolution of course makes total sense, as the human race race has genetically grown and become healthier over the last millennium. Sizes used to be fairly standardized, then someone decided there would be enough payback to make it worth de-standardizing. It would also make clear: this style fits this shape. Our pockets are our purse. Consumers often claim that only X percentage is an hourglass but aggregating responses shows the clear pattern. I don’t fit, I am 5’9″ 200 lbs. Also men are easier to cut for as there are fewer measurements. Sure, you could say you didn’t have that problem 30 years ago but you were probably closer to being height and weight proportionate. I am in the large end of waist & weight ranges. We are all individual BODIES. Personally, I’d rather have to take more time shopping than see fewer options out there. Arguably, with greater sizing variety, there is greater likelihood you’ll find something to fit where as in the past you did not. For the sake of argument, I’ll concede that a size zero -based on survey responses- is 35″ -and people wonder why we have minus sizes? However, since the style now is for low waisted pants which generally are 1-2″ below the waist they work on me with my short rise (ie. I agree with you here as well. But people grow and hold weight about 28/29 if your a woman about 32/33 if your most men. Clothing sizes may have been more uniform because consumers were too. It is very tricky not only covering different body types but sizing for different countries also. I have to get a 6 or a small. ), Just because I get the best fit in these sizes doesn’t mean the shoes or clothes fit well. Being a dressmaker and instructor, my observations about sizing relate mostly to the big four pattern companies as well as clothing alteration. Question: having this information, do you agree it is ideal that we use the majority opinion to determine sizes? They are currently housed in a 36G and happily so, and perkier too! Take the measurement (in millimeters) from the ruler where the flat edge crosses (see image below). Home sewing patterns are just as bad — Vogue/ Butterick/ McCall anyway. I know for a fact that Walmart did change their sizing, at least the number on the tag. I’m not obese, have maintained the same or less weight since high school, have had 4 kids, can buy clothes almost anywhere (even if it is frustrating), but I have to alter absolutely everything I buy to fit my body shape. Because consumers were closer to being height and weight proportionate, clothes were more readily sized to suit. I could not be more opposed to standardized sizes. Say, do you have a girlfriend? Willow Farm Business Park, Castle Donington, DE74 2UG | But why does RTW have to fit within a framework of 0-22? a size 11 in the U.S. would be a size 46 in continental Europe or a size 10.5 in the U.K. There is no right answer. /1950’s in part to nutrition, in part to more food, in part to less walking. I care what the model they are designing for looks like. ), they assume and expect that their clothes fit perfectly off the rack. Btw, I love it when you talk like that -bimodal distribution just makes me shiver all over. I have a terrible time finding blouses that fit since I am small boned except for my breasts (real…not implants) . This is how “Apples” are shaped. When slender, your chest is smaller than your hip but you tend to gain weight in your trunk and over time, your chest measure is larger or equivalent to your hip. She is an apple and I am a “skinny” pear. Note that knitwear is frequently in sizes from XS-XL in misses' sizes, not by numeral. I suggest reading some of it to gain an understanding of the complexities of sizing to a diverse populace. My measurements are now 35-34.5-42. Cheryl Designs, people do need to learn to accept their actual sizes. All Rights Reserved. Two, consumers today have the expectation they should be able to buy whatever off the rack without altering it. One piece shaped sheath dress? I *KNOW* I fit somewhere between a 14-16-18, depending on the store and the brands. There’s no reasonable explanation why I should be a size 0 in one store, a 4 in another, and an 8 in yet a third. The figure height varies three inches and her weight spread is 30 pounds. I am a Patternmaker and am of course finding this blog very interesting (a few years down the track!) As for the guy afraid of choosing the wrong size for his wife, buy small and include a gift receipt. I suspect you are also part of a growing market. Some have to check the tag to know their pant size. [Answers are also No.]. In contemporary clothing, it's not unusual for the sizes to only go up to a 10 or 12. That’s a big change. Measure from the top of your inside leg to your ankle bone. Product lines are sized according to their average customer. Of course customers all wish that every garment would fit exactly how they personally think it should, but they also probably all wish they could win the lottery. Boy Scouting works even better. No doubt some RTW consumers buy into the vanity sizing silliness, but the majority these days are probably more concerned with the price tag than the size tag. Place the piece of paper flat on the ground and stand on it. Misses and womens US dress sizes (also used in Canada) with bust, waist and hip measurement tables for Misses sizes 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18 & 20, Womens sizes 38, 40, 42, 44, 46, 48, 50, plus a brief explanation of junior, petite and half sizes. It’s almost always coming from the same place. This post was very informative. Place an object with a flat edge straight across your toes with the edge touching the tip of your longest toe. Individual product descriptions provide additional information on fit in addition to models size and height. Girls with bigger upper measurements tend to either bust out of everything (literally) or end up wearing tents that don’t fit the rest of their bodies. Too often, you see women in clothes that are too tight in some places, and way loose in others. I have been a size 8 for a long time, even with their stuff, then suddenly all their 8’s were too big. T-Shirt Size Chart by Body Measurements To determine t-shirt size from body measurements, you need to measure: Bust: circumference around bust at the fullest part - use a flexible measuring tape. I also have long arms :) I am not complaining, just making a point. Is it heresy to suggest that the numbers for the heavier portion of the population should be increased (i.e., sell 0-22 at Ann Taylor and 10-32 at Walmart)? Yes and no. Oh, I have tried, tuck and sit and retuck. Where as us guys have no problem walking around with tag on the back of their pants showing their waist is seven inches bigger than their inseam.” Eh, well that is true. If the median of my target market is 14, there’s going to be a bigger difference between my 18 and 16 than between my 16 and 14. to hang tags would also streamline the process for consumers. There is a group called HiddenFeet you might find interesting. I love my customers but MANY of them REFUSE to accept their SIZE… We just need to work with what we HAVE—-OUR BODIES… Personally, I am 5’7″ tall, 130 lbs. I was hoping to suggest a way that could work for manufacturers, marketers, retailers, and consumers alike. He learned how to do that in the Air Force in the 70s. It is better described as sizing evolution. LightInTheBox.com is your source for quality wedding supplies at wholesale prices. with a slightly bottom heavy figure, but only by 1.5″, and a “perfect” waist proportion, 43-34-44.5 or 9-0-10.5, my torso being taller is longer, my arms being taller are longer, my boobs sit rather high, even though they are not the “agreed” to standards. This is how sizes play out, the proportion being Bust is 8″ larger than the waist, waist is zero and hip is 12″ larger than the waist (B:+8  W:0  H:+12): I can tell you right now that the hip of the size 0 is still too large. I have patterned some very oddly shaped people. But (agreeing with you here as well) obesity in our society has stretched the scale to the ridiculous, and is the main issue to address. Questions 2 to 4 are important and it’s great that you’re laying them out, but I don’t understand how they relate to the survey results. McCall’s currently has a size 10 listed as Bust-32.5, waist-25, hip-34.5. Lynne, I knew it was coming, at least I know what to cut out of my diet now and how much I am actually over eating. Sad, for tis not happening in other parts of the world as much as in the U.S. (sorry no source I can quote), The entire ‘sizing’ issue will never be decided upon by EVERYONE. Perhaps we might also benefit by including a general explanation on our tags or websites of how our brand is intended to fit. Some people are of the opinion that the planet traverses the heavens on the back of a turtle. Most people don’t know this or really think about it, just get frustrated when a different size doesn’t fit them as they hoped.] If you chart this, it would have two peaks, one at 38 and another at 40 with a dip at 39. That might guide more potential customers in the right direction. That is only 1% less. If you're shopping in the United Kingdom, you should try on the garment two sizes up from your numeric size. 2) Whether it’s possible to create standard sizes that would always fit everyone. Here’s a rundown of responses for size 12: The results for the size 12 show the same pattern except we’re waffling on waist size, it’s 30″ to 31″. I was trying to keep it clean and neat, just hitting the high points without going nutso so as to lose anyone. I’ll bet you think that as I gain, I’d get heavier up top but nope. As long as the manufacturer remains consistent within the fit they have decided to offer I have no complaints if their ten is closer to another brand’s size 12. If so, let’s filter this backwards using the example of the size 10 for the basis. Of course, this is all predicated on the notion that manufacturers would agree to cooperate with each other for the benefit of consumers. Kathleen, thank you for the links to your other discussions! If your measurement is between two sizes, we recommend you select the larger size. This still wouldn’t make everyone happy because as you gain weight, the relationship between your relative proportions changes. Back in 1985, when I weighed 105-110 lbs, and my measurements were 32-24-34/35, I wore a size 7 dress and my Vogue Pattern size was size 8. In 2015 she opened a 5,000 sqft. Even if my 14 is based on some “standard” 14 bust or hip, the other sizes will be approximations of the “standard” 16 and 18. Coronavirus Notice: To contact the Dimensions team, please email your dedicated customer service inbox for all uniform enquiries or [email protected] for general enquiries. I’ve written about 20 separate entries on this outlining the whole sordid mess. I get so disgusted when shopping in the mall stores and end up having to try on six different sizes of everything because each brand’s sizing is so wildly varied from every other brand’s. its not like US and UK sizes are the same now. Depending on the manufacturer, a UK size 8 dress can correspond with a US size 4 or 6. Hey Tufte fanboy, as you can see, I was all kinds of nice! Hip. Waist in wrong place, hips to high! In the ready-to-wear shoe world, feet are measured using a Brannock Device. A size 6 at Wal-mart is considerably roomier than a size 6 at Neiman’s. These days they’ve even given up (in many cases) the ease descriptions. Men's Shoe Size Men's American, UK, European, Australian, Canadian, Japanese, Chinese and Mexican shoe sizes converter chart. Then maybe sizes could start stabilizing. (music plays), Allen & Kai, I would agree about advertising for shapes. An A cup rides much higher than a full B or C. A DD to F cup can ride much lower. (The t-shirts are cut with a snug fit but are stretchy and very long, so can work for a variety of figure types.). They’re mostly middlemen. Of course that’d be unmanageable … but how do you educate the public to understand there’s more to sizing, or brand selection, than they realise. Can I pick nits? Cherly, Hi. Sign up for our newsletter and magazine > Waist: Measure around natural waistline, keeping the tape comfortably loose, slightly above navel and below rib cage. If you can grab the next larger or smaller size of the same brand hanging on the rack as you gain or lose weight, this would be a happy coincidence but it is not a reasonable expectation because your proportions evolve as you gain and lose weight. The answer to Question 1 was based on answers to your survey results, but who is asking it? But people don’t think like that anymore. That is a size 10 – good as a bse – could be a strawberry (busty) or pear (wide hips) or bananna – kind strait. I hear you. Wholeasale and retail Size 10 Measurements now available from LightInTheBox.com! I have measured remeasured, and draped some weird shapes, to have it come out perfect for the person. Going to a tailor will give you more accurate measurements, but you can certainly get a close approximation handling the measuring tape yourself. Find the right shoe size with our easy-to-read Nike men's footwear size chart. Seems that a retailer like that should/would/could have more control over their own product. Know yourself. Please use the size guide as reference only. I can see what you’re doing here … but what about the rest of the world? Copyright © Kathleen Fasanella. Sorry for the long post. YES…MANY women do not want to KNOW these facts about themselves :( I am a professional seamstress. That is why we also give you Women's General Size Chart with measurements in CM. If they don’t suit or fit, then some other size shouldn’t fit better. Also, this let’s me figure out if I could down size or upsize between the types and then get it taken in. In the U.S. and Britain, shoe sizes change by 1/3″ per half size. Guys can wear the same thing. By the way, when you do find that unobtainium fabric, I’ll take a few yards! One or more of the big 4 pattern companies has little shapes by each pattern that mean this particular garment will look ok on this particular body type. The main thing I get from the survey results is a reinforced belief that consistency is the most essential thing. How can manufacturers possibly come back to us and tell us that they are going to base their size 10 on our conclusions from trying on their clothes? Maybe this would bring about a lightbulb moment, where heavy consumers would realize it’s time to cut back. Any thing about age, weight, size, “does this make my butt look big” is best avoided. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. 2. I don’t think anyone disagrees with the need to occasionally shift the scale upward. I am still 5’2″ short and not happy by my size increase, but I am not going to lie to myself about it. I am busty with narrow hips…Measurements are 40-29-34. Hers is not an exact science variance from one woman to another in sizes from XS-XL in misses ',! Shirt size all in inches when patternmaking ( particularly linings ) also make clear: style! A style more suited to a 35 pound spread look like best.! 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